Curse

G4ymBoy · Apr 22, 2010, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

Sure, something should be done. Something meaningful. I don't think dumbing down the game again is it tough.

I agree but i dont think more power creep is the answer either. I want my mesmer to stay mesmery...just with more AoE >.> AoE Ineptitude anyone?

Cuilan · Apr 22, 2010, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

Sure, something should be done. Something meaningful. I don't think dumbing down the game again is it tough.

Sure, let's keep the game lacking balance. Every profession should be powerful except a select few. They should be buffed just enough to shut the players up but not enough to where they're in my groups.

That's pretty much how I read your post.

MagmaRed · Apr 22, 2010, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by G4ymBoy

I agree but i dont think more power creep is the answer either. I want my mesmer to stay mesmery...just with more AoE >.> AoE Ineptitude anyone?

That is power creep. It may not be a BIG boost in damage options, but it increases the damage you can do (and the Blind), which means the power is CREEPING forward. Clumsiness used to be single target, just like Ineptitude still is. It got increased, which is nice, but at the same time, it is increasing the power people have to inflict damage. I don't know what would make a difference, but I know it needs to tie into Fast Casting or it won't make Mesmer more useful for PvE, it will just make Mesmer skills more useful. I don't think damage should be the focus for any Mesmer changes either. Considering virtually all damage a Mesmer supplies will ignore armor it doesn't really need to be boosted, especially since the class has options to do so many other useful things. But since most people prefer to just blow things up, nobody will care about using interrupts, disables, or any of the other things a Mesmer can do.

Gill Halendt · Apr 22, 2010, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Sure, let's keep the game lacking balance. Every profession should be powerful except a select few. They should be buffed just enough to shut the players up but not enough to where they're in my groups.

That's pretty much how I read your post.

The problem is not that every profession is powerful except a select few. The problem is some classes are OVERpowered, and making all classes equally overpowered IS NOT the way to go, expecially since the opposition (monsters in PvE) is ridicolously weak when compared to ANY class.

So, improvements to the Mesmer are fine with me. Whatever helps them to fill some role better is fine either. No idiotic, overpowered, me-too solutions tough. There's enough "iWin buttons" in this game already, I don't want the Mesmer to be turned into the next one, at least not without a complete overhaul of the game (made significantly harder) that justifies the introduction of another "build for dummies".

aeronox · Apr 23, 2010, 12:50 AM // 00:50

What I think the main objectives should be:
1) To not make the team disadvantaged by bringing a Mesmer instead of another class.
2) To keep the style of Mesmer play in line with its theme(s).

What's involved in such a change:
ArenaNet / Guild Wars Live Team resources; screening suggestions, evaluating the impact in PvE/PvP, review and approval process, programming skill changes, AI behaviour, AI builds, localization, QA and testing, TK testing and feedback, pushing to Live update, fixing bugs.
(I put this together from memory and guesswork, I could be wrong)

What are the options?
A) Buff key Mesmer skills; or
B) Nerf key skills from Warriors, Elementalists, Monks, Necromancers, Ritualists; or
C) Change PvE AI teams, builds and behaviours

Which do you think is most likely to happen?

JDRyder · Apr 23, 2010, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeronox

What I think the main objectives should be:
1) To not make the team disadvantaged by bringing a Mesmer instead of another class.
2) To keep the style of Mesmer play in line with its theme(s).

What's involved in such a change:
ArenaNet / Guild Wars Live Team resources; screening suggestions, evaluating the impact in PvE/PvP, review and approval process, programming skill changes, AI behaviour, AI builds, localization, QA and testing, TK testing and feedback, pushing to Live update, fixing bugs.
(I put this together from memory and guesswork, I could be wrong)

What are the options?
A) Buff key Mesmer skills; or
B) Nerf key skills from Warriors, Elementalists, Monks, Necromancers, Ritualists; or
C) Change PvE AI teams, builds and behaviours

Which do you think is most likely to happen?

I assume you're talking about RoJ on monks, because other than that monks have nothing to do with not taking a mesmer.

aeronox · Apr 23, 2010, 01:36 AM // 01:36

You're wrong. Overpowered healing and damage negation removes the need for shutting down offense.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Seed_of_Life - Healing Seed for the whole team
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Unyielding_Aura - Healing bonus with instant fully charged Rebirth
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Selfless_Spirit - Spam away

But you are partly right, Monks aren't the biggest offenders.

JDRyder · Apr 23, 2010, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeronox

You're wrong. Overpowered healing and damage negation removes the need for shutting down offense.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Seed_of_Life - Healing Seed for the whole team
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Unyielding_Aura - Healing bonus with instant fully charged Rebirth
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Selfless_Spirit - Spam away

But you are partly right, Monks aren't the biggest offenders.

While I agree that UA is OP, heals are not whats stopping mesmers from being useful in Pve parties. People simply don't use shut down because its too hard to do and generally useless in pve due to the short duration of battles in pve and the buffed to shitty gameplay stats NPCS have in HM.

examples

You get a Diversion off on a eles Invoke Lightning in HM, he dies before it recharged anyway, even if he wasn't the target of the group

You hex something with panic, well GG its not really going to matter

You power block something, useful but in HM its too hard to do consistently due to the lag in GW now adays in pve and the NPCs casting time on most skills.

Rather monks are OP or not, mesmers are still being useless, not to mention people use other types of "shutdown" all the time that are actually useful, such as minions, spirits, knock-downs ect that dont necessarily req any skill, yet help the group more than trying to shut down something as a mesmer. Should these other types of shutdown be nerfed? imo no. Mesmer would still be a unwelcome member in the party without Pve skills, yet you can't just buff mesmer skills alone because then you'll just get a bunch of N/Mes using the newly powerful mesmer skills. Which is why I suggested this, plz pay more attention to the concepts not the green numbers

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

Agreed, imo most of the problems for mesmers are due to HM casting times ect. Removing the cast time would make mesmers more wanted (in my mind set anyway) for sitting on eles ect, stopping that double damage would be worth having a mesmer to me.

I also think interrupting should have better effects in pve, for example

Power flux, if target foe is interrupted target foes nearby take 15 damage for each rank in fast casting

Here are some other basic ideas I'd like to see.

Dom

Panic, hex target foe with panic for 10 secs next spell that foe uses fails. If a spell fails target foe gets knocked down every 2 secs for each rank in fast casting.

Backfire now hexes all foes nearby if fast casting is above 4 (this also will encourage player monks to take hex removal rather than a bar full of heals... hopefully...)

Diversion now hexes all foes nearby if fast casting is above 4, and skill backfires on the caster.

Shame/Guilt now cause 8 damage for each rank in fast casting as well.

Ill

Conjure Nightmare/Phantasm now also causes 4 damage each sec to adjacent foes for each rank in fast casting

Imagined Burden now hexes all foes in the area if Fast casting is above 4 (imo would allow for more team work because it allows melee to have less down time when a mob moves away, as well is allows your casters to kite in HM)

Clumsiness skills (or skills like them) cause 2 damage to nearby foes for each rank in fast casting

Insp

Channeling, enchants party members if FC is above 4

Ether lord, hex target foe with either lord, allies nearby gain 1 energy for each rank in fast casting whenever that foe cast a spell.

Spirit Shackles target foe loses 5 energy whenever it attacks. The ally who that foe is attacking gains 5 energy if your fast casting is above 4

Morphy · Apr 23, 2010, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Yay, more power creep in PvE. Ah well, keeps the PvE-ers happy.

drkn · Apr 23, 2010, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morphy

Yay, more power creep in PvE. Ah well, keeps the PvE-ers happy.

I love your posts, sir. They are sooo predictable, especially in PvE-related threads. It's always the very same line.

Quote:

You get a Diversion off on a eles Invoke Lightning in HM, he dies before it recharged anyway, even if he wasn't the target of the group
You hex something with panic, well GG its not really going to matter

The funniest part: bosses, who might be hit by a mesmer much harder than by other classes, are usually semi- or fully-resistant to mesmer hexes (halved duration on normal bosses, Dhuum/Shiro being un-divertable, not to mention Mallyx and his attitude towards hexes).

Regina Buenaobra · Apr 23, 2010, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Skill update preview with preliminary Mesmer changes have been posted on the wiki: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedb...pdate_previews

Arduin · Apr 23, 2010, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Yo! Sweetness!

Essence Snow · Apr 23, 2010, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Skill update preview with preliminary Mesmer changes have been posted on the wiki: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedb...pdate_previews

~Thank you!
~12 Charrrrrss

Shadowkiller Seth · Apr 23, 2010, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Okay to make a class more powerful? hmm we take all skills and add aoe dmg

IlikeGW · Apr 23, 2010, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowkiller Seth

Okay to make a class more powerful? hmm we take all skills and add aoe dmg

And? Face it AOE is what works with the game design of a ton of monsters pounding on your group while the monk heals and tanks tank. Every attempt to make a caster work more ephemerally has failed.

JDRyder · Apr 23, 2010, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Skill update preview with preliminary Mesmer changes have been posted on the wiki: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedb...pdate_previews

Imo a good start, its pretty much what people have been saying in this thread.

Smarty · Apr 23, 2010, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Currently eating my hat about no changes to the AI in HM whilst drooling over the buffed elites.

I hope that being able to run 14+ dom/illu/insp and having FC rather than Mindbender makes these lovely-sounding buffs vastly more desirable on a mes primary than on secondary so that the update does its intended job of improving the PvE mesmer's lot in life. Nice work so far, ANet/Krewe.

Gill Halendt · Apr 23, 2010, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smarty

Currently eating my hat about no changes to the AI in HM whilst drooling over the buffed elites.

As a key first step, we’re changing the way the Hard Mode casting speed increase works, so that spells with a casting time of 1 second or less are unaffected. This takes active interruption out of the realm of “don’t-even-think-about-it” to “maybe-if-the-payoff-was-good-enough.”

Smarty · Apr 23, 2010, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Exactly. Pass me the salt please.

Raynb · Apr 23, 2010, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Skill update preview with preliminary Mesmer changes have been posted on the wiki: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedb...pdate_previews

WOW, really nice changes! Makes me really wish to play as a Mesmer at PvE and things look nice on the future!

But I have to ask something Regina. Most of the significant damage changes goes in one of the attribute lines that any secondary Mesmer have access to, and especially in illusion attribute with lots of new powerfull skills.

Have A.net tought in the really big possibility of anyone with Mesmer as secondary profession being equally able and efficient to play the role of a Mesmer primary at High-End PvE? (Cry of Pain being one good example of it btw)

Can something be done so when the balance finally goes live primary Mesmers have a considerable advantage over secondaries using Mesmers skills?

Sorry if I was hard to understand but I got really worried with this issue and I hope A.net can give some attention at this. And once again, thanks for this nice Mesmer balance